THE PAKISTAN REEL AND THEN ON A WINTER MORNING

Item

Title: THE PAKISTAN REEL AND THEN ON A WINTER MORNING
extracted text: Tfe Pakistan Reel
And t(?en on a winter morning/ tge fourteen set out

The How and Why

07658

In the course of our work with students, we often encounter feelings of hostility
I and distrust towards Pakistan, Pakistani people. Some even extended these
1 feelings towards Muslims in India. In fact, for some students, their ‘patriotism’

rushed to get tickets, money and other paraphernalia. We flew to Lahore, and ran
from pillar to post in Lahore and Islamabad only to
be told that familiar song “Your file is missing”. We

was measured in terms of their hatred towards Pakistan, especially after the
post-Kargil media hype . For others, though there was no overt anger, their minds
were filled with questions about Pakistani society, the
roots of the dispute with India and myths about
Partition, which have not been addressed by either our
education, our media or our families. In fact, these have
even strengthened negative stereotypes of Pakistan.
Against such a backdrop, we at Samvada felt the need to
give young people an opportunity to experience Pakistan,
interact with people on the street, appreciate its natural
beauty, gain insights into the Pakistani cultures and look
at the Indo-Pak conflict from their point of view. The
exposure was planned to also help students understand
problems that were common to both countries like poverty, gender injustice,
environmental destruction and growing fundamentalism.
Once we started breaking our heads about what the trip should include we realised
that we wanted to do and see everything! But common sense and visa
restrictions helped us Finalise our schedule for a ten day trip covering Lahore,
Islamabad and Peshawar. Then began the marathon letter writing session; to the
High Commission, to NGOs, friends and godfathers in Pakistan and students who
would be interested in the trip. A thousand letters and some hundreds of emails
later, we were able to select twelve students and also had a itinerary that
covered visits to historic places, meetings with students, artistes, journalists,
NGOs, human rights activists, women’s groups and farmers’ organisations. We
were beginning to wonder if we would get time to chumma wander around in
Pakistan.

did not give up. We frantically faxed anyone and
everyone who could help. When we left Islamabad
we had a feeling that we just might get the visas,
only to land in Lahore and discover our hopes were
misplaced. We returned to Delhi all the time
wondering what to tell the students who had
already reached Delhi. But in Delhi... shoo
mantar., alak pulak... a call from the Pakistan
High Commission informs us that the clearance
has arrived with some help from mysterious
forces ... and from that moment everything fell into place.
This trip had a lot of impact on ail of us and changed us in many ways . Yes, ten
days is hardly enough to understand another society, but it was definitely more
than enough to question our assumptions and enhance our ability to appreciate
Pakistan and its people. We got to meet a whole range of people and also were
lucky enough to attend the annual international theatre festival in Lahore, taste a
variety of kebabs, rotis and green teas, visited Punjasahib and Takshila, had
chicken sandwiches with Supreme Court Judges and ate puris and Pakistani
“kesaribhat” in the roadside dhabas!
In the pages that follow, all of us in the group try and share some of our
experiences, capture our various thoughts and moods. We hope that our
excitement will spill over and inspire you to also visit Pakistan someday. . ■ but
before that, make sure you have a friendly fax machine, a love for high voltage
suspense and a wild streak of insanity to never feel discouraged till you get the
visas.... Once you are there- it is all worth it!

Armed with this formidable schedule we went to the Pakistan High Commission in
Delhi to get the visas. Much to our disappointment, we were told that we had not
been officially cleared by the Interior Ministry of Pakistan ( which actually did not
exist as the coup had just taken place!). The staff at the Embassy said that the
two of us from Samvada, could go to Pakistan and try to get the clearance from
there. This seemed like a wild goose chase because we had no idea where to go and
whom to talk to. Anyway, we decided that we would go and do our best. So we

(Anita Ratnam)

There must be more to Pakistan than criciset,

e Nov '99 Quawaaiis and military coups!
When I told my mother that I am going to

When I heard of the exposure to Pakistan many questions
arose in my mind. The first question was, is Pakistan like
India? How do the people live there? Why do we hate the
people there?
Anthony

My parents were
amused as well as a

little worried when I
told them about my
going on the trip. My
mother even said, “Tere
sath ke sab log
America aur London ja
rahe hain, tu Pakistan
ke liyeja raha hain!”
Kamaan

Pakistan, she asked me “Where is this
place, how far is it?" I told her that it is
beyond Delhi. In my enthusiasm to make her
understand I told her that it is the country
where most people are Muslims and
reminded her of the war that took place
recently. Her fears then began to soar,
“You just said that we fought a war
against them and you want to go there!
What if you get injured? I explained to her
that the war is over and that there are
many nice people in Pakistan. All my friends
were happy because I was the first person
in our sanghatan to go abroad.
Shivaninga

The road to Pakistan: so near... yet so far!
7 Nov ‘99

Many ages
Ancient times
Climb the lizard of memory

Up the wall
The steep cliffs
Climb the squirrel of thought
Up the wall
The steep cliffs
Off the branches

The crazy ones
Race the great languor of feelings
So are we
Are we?
Going to drown?

To live
See the light?
The love?
Who are they?

Those that stumble in the dark?
Are we in the crowd?
Are we?
We sat in the spooky waiting room of Chennai Central
waiting for the Grand Trunk to whisk us off to Delhi. The
nine of us sat looking at each other. There is me, 1 study
electronics. Kamaan is doing MA (English). Shivanna
and Shivaninga are Dalit activists. Anuj and Shahrukh

are studying at the National Law School. Padma is from
Vivekananda Law College in Bangalore. Dayanand is from
Doddehejjaji and studying law in Bangalore. Anthony is
a student from Kerala. What do we have in common except that we are all going to
Pakistan?
Chaitra

So obsessed with our future
That we lose the moment
This good second
That we own
So will we...

Ever see the light
Manu

DHli Darsban
8 Nov '99
Arrived at New Delhi at the absurd hour of 4.30 am. Everybody
went sightseeing. Dipt! who is the tenth member of the group has
joined us. She is part of an NGO called Abhivyakti in Nasik. We just
got the horrible news that Anita and Usha of Samvada are flying
back from Pakistan. The Pakistan Interior Ministry has refused us
clearance. The trip is off!

10 Nov '99

Good news. We seem to have got our clearance. Anita and

Usha were both apprehensive and ecstatic. More sightseeing
and shopping. Half the group has gone to Agra to see the Taj.
What will happen tomorrow?

9 Nov '99
We are drowning our sorrows in Delhi-darshan. Visited
Ped Fort and India Gate. Had lunch at Connaught Place
and shopped at Palika Bazaar. When we returned, Usha
and Anita were waiting for us. They told us our trip is in
the doldrums because of bureaucratic games. The last
member of our group has arrived. Manu is an architect
currently working with street children.

11 NOV '99

VJe are going!

We had a meeting in the morning about our programme. After
lunch we went to the Pakistan High Commission. The embassy
is imposing and luxurious, full of paintings and plush furniture.
The High Commissioner Mr.Ashraf Quazi was warm and
hospitable and tried to put us at ease by talking about
cricket and Sachin Tendulkar. We were fed chicken sandwiches,
which we tried to devour without looking like barbarians.

We are still full of confusion about Pakistan. VW? are going
into a country which just saw a military coup. Pervez
Musharraf took over just ten days ago. Are we going to be
scuttled around Pakistan by soldiers?

When we left the Pakistan Embassy in Delhi we noticed groups of people
sitting near the side gate of High Commission. We discovered that they
too had applied for visas to visit their relatives in Pakistan. They were

waiting for their visas with a lot of uncertainty and anxiety. Some of
them looked very poor and had come from different parts of Punjab,
Uttar Pradesh and Bihar and were camping there on the road side and
waiting for that magic bit of paper! We wished them luck.

Is it true that all women wear burkhas in Pakistan?
Will there be food-riots and rampant poverty

because of the extremely pathetic state of the Pakis

12 Nov '99

Flight of Daedalus

As every other mode of transport is hooked (so many people
are taking the bus) we had to fly to Pakistan. After lunch we

took the long auto ride to Indira Gandhi International airport.

Padma
Lahore looks like Delhi
with fewer people, less
pollution and more
gardens.
Anuj

I never thought I’d get to fly. I can never forget that I
lost touch with land. For half an hour no one on the
land can find me. It seemed like we were sneering at
the sun. I was thrilled when the sun sank because we
were above him. My fear flapped its wings as we

reached Pakistan. Most of the people around us were
men dressed in Pathan suits.
Shivaninga

At Delhi Airport,we had to go
through a lot of checks and face a
lot of pointed questions but that
was to be expected, wasn't it?
Dayanand

There was hardly any formality at the Lahore airport. Within no
time we were whisked off to the hotel as there were four PIPFPD
(Pakistan India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy)
members waiting for us. They welcomed us warmly and were
genuinely delighted about our trip. One of them said he has been

visiting India every year since 1982.

Shivanna

A chicken-eating

spree has begun
with touch down at
Lahore. Much to
the shock of many
Pakistanis who
think that all
Indians are
vegetarians.

Deepti

Lahore
13 Nov '99

First day in Lahore and we went everywhere. We visited the National

College of Arts. It offers courses in Fine Arts, Design and
Architecture. It is housed in a gorgeous building that is 126 years
old. It is admission time so the corridors are full of nervous
students and huge sketch books, presumably their portfolios. It is a
comfortingly familiar sight. Some of the girls are very hep. Plenty of
tight jeans. Hardly what we expected to see.
Mr. Ajaz Ahmed, director of the college was our escort. He said that
the new syllabus does not accommodate traditional crafts like

jewellery design and lace making.

As we walked into the main courtyard in the National College of Arts we
were hit by a life-size sculpture of two people on a swing caught in a

passionate kiss. But just across the road in Punjab University, we found
women in burqas and separate canteens for men and women! The liberal and
the conservative faces of Pakistani society are literally side by side. In pre
Independence days Punjab University was the only university from Delhi to
Lahore and was a breeding ground for radical intellectuals. Today, a
fundamentalist student union has taken over this campus.

postcards from the past
Ajaz Ahmed has been awarded the Pride of Pakistan
award for his art. He gave us booklets of his famous
paintings of Old Lahore. He was one of the many people
who crossed the border by foot at the time of Partition.
He walked from UP to Lahore when he was eleven years
old!

Shah Rukh

When he exhibited these paintings in Delhi an old couple came to him and said,
“Lahore ko fir dhekne ki ek hasrat si hogayi hai.”

“Partition should have been more peaceful,” he kept saying. The memories are
alive, the words have lots of emotional punctuation. For a person like me who is
from South India, who has encountered Partition only in the text books, history
suddenly took on a different meaning.
Usha

Against all odds
In the evening we visited AGHS-the legal aid cell run by
Asma Jehangir, Hina Jalani and other women lawyers who
work on women’s issues. They also spoke to us about the
kinds of cases they take up - of sexual assault, divorce,
separation and sometimes honour killings. Honour killings
are crimes committed by families who feel that daughters
who make their own choices about who they want to marry
damage the mariyathe of the family. Occasionally, women
who leave and seek divorce from abusive husbands also die
at the hands of their parents and siblings. Of course,
honour killings are hardly restricted to Pakistan! Made us
think again about dowry killings in India...
Shah Rukh

The radical work undertaken by the group is unpopular in
certain circles which would prefer to keep women without
rights as patriarchal societies all over the world do. This

does not make for a safe life for any of these activists.
We had to go through an elaborate security check before
we entered the premises. They also run legal cum social

awareness workshops for women.
The women we met were vibrant and confident. They were
excited about the space AGH5 has created for them to
discuss things (like families, their rights) which they had
never talked about before. They were very anxious to know
about the status of women in India.

Muslim personal law, especially for women, is much better
in Pakistan. The traditional way of divorce by saying

“talaaq,talaaq,talaaq” is no longer the accepted norm in

Pakistan. Marriage now entails a proper legal contract.
They thought women in India were given more freedom. Are
we?
Dipti

RAFI PEER THEATRE WORKSHOP & THE NEWS PRESENT

First Day, First £how
At night, we attended a formal dinner organised by the
PIPFPD at the Lahore Gymkhana Club. The stunning
and spirited Madeeha Gowhar from Ajokha Theatre
group was there and personally invited us to watch her
play that night. So after dinner, we went to watch
'Bala Iking’ at the international theatre festival at the
Al Shamara Art Complex. This festival is an annual
event with groups coming from all over the world.
Ajokha’s play that evening was a political satire called
Bala King. Adapted from Bertolt Brecht’s depiction of
Hitler’s rise to power. It was a courageous play
because one could see that the adaptation was
actually talking about Nawaz Sharif. Apparently, it had
been banned in Pakistan and then allowed to
participate in the international festival. Another
Pakistani group did a play about a sex worker. It was a
brilliant and courageously revealing portrayal of her life,
her sexuality, her body.

Usha
I was fascinated by the theatre culture in Pakistan.
There is a tradition of popular theatre in Pakistan. We
were told that Lahore alone has eight theatre houses,
which constantly run house-full! However, plays on
religion, women’s rights and other issues of social
concern do not easily get opportunities to get staged.
Shivaninga

14 Nov ‘99

Museum Musings
There are relics from Mohen-jo-daro and Harrappa, which made us

want to actually go to those places and look around. Upstairs there
is a separate section on the freedom struggle and it was interesting

to look at the whole process from a Pakistani viewpoint. It seemed
like there is an emphasis on Muslim leaders in the freedom struggle.
Tippu Sultan is regarded as the most significant Indian freedom
fighter.

Several other pieces in the museum seemed so familiar and
reminded us of the common history that India and Pakistan have
shared for thousands of years. It sometimes comes as a shock to
remember that the nations ’Pakistan’ and ’India’ are just 52 years
old! There are a lot of stamps commemorating the freedom struggle
and other important milestones in Pakistani history. There is also a
magnificent art gallery which includes a vast collection of Gandinara
Art. The sculpture of the Starving Buddha is the most celebrated
piece.

Next we visited the museums.There was a large replica of the Taj Mahal
in the Lahore fort. Little children were staring at it in awe. It made me
sad to think that probably none of them would ever get to see the real
thing. Pakistanis who finally manage to get an Indian visa are not allowed
to visit Agra as it is a cantonment town.
Usha

A schoolboy at the Lahore Museum asked me if Dubai was in India.
Two schoolboys (bunking obviously) offered to buy our tickets and
show us around the place.
Kamaan

Loafing in Lahore

Travelling around Lahore was fun. We used rickshaws, mini
buses and sometimes the Daewoo City buses owned and run
by the Korean MNC. Every time we used one of them we were
fascinated. They are air-conditioned, have automatic doors
and cost Rs 6 for unlimited travel.

The amazingly clean streets and good civic sense (no
spitting and peeing on the roads) left me awestruck. There
were no signs of abject poverty. Here we are with the
neemkaddi seller who gave us neem twigs

Military rule does not seem to have affected
day-to-day life. In fact, many people look up to
it with hope, while some others seemed

confused and skeptical.

Meanwhile, business as usual.

15 Nov '99

£oidier$ of a different Kind

This morning we visited Mr.I.A.Rehman at the Human
Rights Commission, Pakistan (HRCP) who spoke to us about
the human rights situation . This was an illuminating
session and we could ask all our questions freely- from

Next stop: the Scholar’s College for a discussion with the
students. This turned out to be extremely formal almost
like a high school where the students had pre-prepared
their questions and little speeches. We tried to make it
more spontaneous but the spontaneity really came after
the meeting. Like in the other colleges, here too we were
asked about democracy in India and our stance on
Kashmir. A sumptuous high tea followed this. People who
craved to visit India were exchanging addresses with us.

prestige constructions to feudalism to social practices and
the Pakistani State machinery. This gave us some valuable
insights into the values that govern Pakistani society.
Mr Rehman spoke about the people’s struggle against
Kalabhag dam which forced the Pakistan governmentto re
examine its impact on tribals and farmers. He told us about
the campaign against bonded labour and work with women
in prisons, about honor killings and about the efforts that
human rights groups in different parts of Pakistan are
making to tackle very difficult issues.

In the evening we went to the Aurat Foundation, an
NGO that works entirely on women’s issues. We were

given some posters and treated to yet another round
of high tea- samosas and chicken sandwiches.

We later went to the South Asia Partnership-Pakistan, an

NGO that works to promote democratic rights and rural
development where we spoke about inequality in India and
Pakistan- the similarities and differences. There are no
starvation deaths in Pakistan and we were asked to ponder
this. Lovely lunch and lots of food for thought as well.
S'hah Rukh

Groups like Aurat Foundation, Sahil, SAP and HRCP are trying to
work against the inequalities of in Pakistani society. They fight
bonded labour, gender discrimination, human rights violation and child
sexual abuse. Talking to them helped us understand Pakistani society
and the different systems that keep the inequalities alive. But seeing
the lifestyles of some of the NGOs I wonder whether they can bring
about social change. Visiting Pakistan has strengthened my beliefs in
the importance of people’s struggle and kriyasheela chintana.

Shivanna

The streets of Lahore
Went around the old city in a tonga.

On the way to Anarkali Bazaar we noticed Imran
Khan's Cancer Foundation. Lahore still looks like Pelhi.
The wider roads, signboards in Arabic, fewer women on
the streets, the fact there were none on two wheelers,
separate women’s sections in buses. ..these were
details we began to notice gradually.

Sat talking on the pavements in the evening and met a charming
young girl selling knick-knacks. We then walked to Gadaffi

Stadium- back to the theatre festival.Since Chaitra, Deepti and I
were wearing bindis, people would often give us second looks. Many
people come up to us in buses, in shops on the streets. They are full of
warmth, hospitality and guestions. Some talked of their friends from
Pre-Partition days. Many said that they wanted to see the Taj, Mysore
and The Lalbagh in Bangalore. If only there were no problems with visas!
Padma

26 NOV '99

Hurtling down!

.eft Lahore earn.
tr.e mzr~''\aa az the new Daewoo bus service, ~~'re motorway to Islamabad
s also been constructed and maintained by Daewoo ano is something most middle-ciass
kistan's steak proudof. While on the bus, we realised that the motorway was totally
fenced off from oedestrans, blindly cut across villages and people's houses and fields,
ignored water systems and Hows. All this has resulted in rampant water logging and farmers
getting out off from them fields while Daewoo reaps millions in toils and profits. To think that

with tine express ways being planned - Bangalore-Mysore and Mumbai-Bure and the Kashmir
to Kanyakumar nd-way- '-..va seems to be headed in the same appalling direction.
it is fun taking to people on the bus. "Aap hamaare mehmaan ham." was something we heard
everowhere. We even made friends 'with the Fun'ab CM’s bodyguard on a bus.
One cft-.e women asked me, "Weren't you scared to come here? Hew did your parents agree

Padma

Of courge, there are Pakistanis who are angry 'with India. We did not meet toe rrar\ z' them
but: cannot rorget one incident. Two young men in a Lahore bus 'were criticizing t'nn ,\ar
between India and Bak.star. I stood next to them listening to the:.- ccn/ersaticn.
z d mar

siting next to them stared back saying. "What are you blabbering about? "hex are dest'O'.'-.'
our mosques, ill-treating our Muslim brothers there and have occupied Kashmir. You are
saying we should not fight with such people?" Then one of the vounu> men sale: “ t is zrae
that they have destroyed our mosque and i’l-treated our Musiim brothers, but are .'.e
treating the Hindus here well? We have been fighting for 52 vears. Tell me w-at we '-a-e aa'- e.
from this, except killing some people on both side?- The old man lust pounced co r-e--."

don’t know what we have gained... all I know is that we should not give uo Kash-- r to t e-■"
was slightly perturbed and hoped that no one would realise I was Indian.
Shivaninga

Islamabad
By noon we reached Islamabad. So here we are in the capital of
Pakistan. A popular joke we heard was “Islamabad is a nice city, it is
only ten kilometres from Pakistan." To many Pakistanis, the real
Pakistan is the crowded old city of Rawalpindi. Islamabad is
impersonal with imported cars zooming past and very few people on
the streets. There are no city buses or autos. The streets have no
names just numbers. Somehow one is reminded of Chandigarh and
its inhuman planning. (Very much like Chankyapuri and some parts
of Luytens’ New Delhi)
Manu

We met Anusheh, director of an MGO called Sahil that works
against child sexual abuse. Anusheh was everything that we did
not expect to see in a Pakistani woman (Pardon us for the
stereotypes I) Black jeans and a sweatshirt, sharp and critical in
dialogue, smoking like a chimney. She took our breath away.
Anusheh spent an hour with us telling us about child sexual
abuse in Pakistan and her work. Her analysis of what is happening
in terms of child rape- gang rape of children, male child
prostitution and her understanding of the sexual mores in
different parts/ strata of Pakistani society made us sit there
hanging on to her every word. Of course, there were horror
stories, but her focus was more on the causes and on possible
ways of addressing the underlying issue.
More chicken sandwiches for lunch and the vegetarians were
treated to some hot rice and dal. We then made a beeline for the
Sahil computers to send emails to parents and friends.
Shah Rukh

In the evening we went to the Faisal Mosque which was built as a
gift from Saudi Arabia to Pakistan. It is a very modern structure
and looks almost like a space station. The boys in our group
offered namaz while the girls watched from the women’s gallery.
The boys were carefully copying the movements of the rest of the
congregation. For a minute I was unsure of what I was to do. The
man next to me gently gave me a cue.
Anu/

17 NOV '99

OF Borders and babus

We visited the Indian High Commission. The officials were very cordial and
hospitable though at times they seemed rather critical and prejudiced about
Pakistanis.
We could see a huge crowd at the end of Diplomatic Enclave behind the Indian
High Commission. Hundreds of people have come from all over Pakistan with all
kinds of live-in gear, camping for days in queue to get their rightful visas to visit
their relatives in India. The Indian High Commission staff proudly told us about
their lottery scheme for the visas- they actually pick lots to decide which
applicants will be interviewed! Felt ashamed that Pakistanis who want to visit
their kith and kin in India have to go through such a tortuous process.

Nowhere in Pakistan have we seen slums or rampant poverty
at the scale, which it is in India. When I enquired aboutthis
of an Indian diplomat, I was told that many of the poorer
areas were walled up to make them unnoticeable. If there
were many slums, then technically speaking, the Pakistani
government had managed a neat cosmetic job. Though,
personally I would much prefer that people be brought out of
poverty, not hidden.
Kamaan

Earlier, people had told us that getting the visa is only the first part of the
unpleasantness in store .The experiences on Samjoutha express have been
horrible for people of both sides.. ..people have been pulled off the train in the
middle of the journey, awful checks at the beginning and end of journey at the
border points. The train itself has hardly any working lights and fans and is a
killer in the summer. And then there is this strange rule. If you go by train one
way - because you cannot get bus tickets or because you cannot afford to fly
both ways or because you want to go to Lahore first and then to Karachi- you
have to compulsorily return by the horrible train. What is the logic of these

rules? Do our governments want to somehow discourage people from crossing
the border?
Usha

Pakistan has over a dozen varieties of interesting
rotis. Today we had Afghan rotis for breakfast in a
dhaba behind the hotel. Met a Kannadiga so I got to
eat upma, sambhar and bajis.
Chaitra

Queries and quarrels
We went to the Thames School of Business Management and Quaid-eAzam University. As usual, there were questions about Kashmir, the rise
of fundamentalism in India and Pakistan, Pokhran, the educational
system.
Interestingly, many Pakistanis do not know about the ISI, but they knew a
lot about the activities of the Indian foreign intelligence agency RAW. One
hardly hears of the RAW in India where ISI is almost synonymous with
Pakistan according to our media and politicians

Dayanand
The Supreme Court

We visited the Supreme Court and even observed the proceedings in two
court halls. We observed with relief that the atmosphere inside the
courtroom was so informal that the complainant could intervene and
explain his position at any point. The judges seemed friendly and talked
the common man’s dialect!
The law of the land in Pakistan seems so similar to the one in India.We
observed that a whole hall n the Pakistani Supreme Court Library was

dedicated to the case precedents in the Indian Courts. We seem to
have done very little to amend the common inheritance our still adored
Raj-babus left us.

The city is full of what someone called ’prestige constructions’ built
by the government including the Supreme Court, Parliament House and
others like the Nawaz Mansion above. Grandiose buildings stand
abandoned as they were built for no clear purpose.
Dipt!

We had tea with Justice Zahid and the Attorney general. The judges
were discussing the military coup and we could sense the differences
of opinion among them. We narrated our experiences so far in Pakistan
and then were given more chicken sandwiches!

07653

TaKshashila
18 Nov’99
We left- Islamabad at noon. Takshashila is heart-breakingly beautiful. Our
first stop was Takshashila Museum. The collections of everyday use were
exquisite and exhaustive. The exhibits date back to the Sth century BC.
Wished that we could have spent more time there. From there we went to
the excavation sites at Sirkalp and the Dharmajika Stupa. Sirkalp was
established in 130 B.C. The stupa was built by Ashoka.Today Takshashila
is (according to Lonely Planet) one of Asia's richest archaeological sites.

Most of the relics however are now in British museums.

Onward to Peshawar. Stunning scenery. We now have a police van escorting us.One of the
policemen wanted to know if Indian film stars are as good-looking in real life as they
seem in movies. Indian movies are a great favourite here. Satellite channels geared
mainly for the Indian middle class audiences have a strong presence in Pakistani homes.
Unfortunately, it does little to.portray the real India. We had to constantly fight the
upper middle class images TV portrays. What can be a great tool to bring people
together is keeping people apart by sensationalizing the sub-continent cn fire" image.

19 Nov’99
IVe are now officially in the Northwest Frontier
Province (NWFP) famous for their frontier Gandhi.
The difference in culture in Peshawar is obvious. The
Pushtoo or the Pukhtoons (The British called them
Pathans) feel upset by what they call the
dominance of Punjabi and Urdu over Pashtu. We are
welcomed by Tariq and Tehseem who work with the
Human Kights Commission in Peshawar and after
some lovely green tea they took us out for a
Pashtu dinner- kebabs of all types. We are finally
free of chicken sandwiches! It is a different world
after all.
In Peshawar we met two amazing women from the
Revolutionary Association of Women of

Afghanistan (RAWA). They told us about of the
Taliban and the pitiful state of the common people
in Afghanisatan. In many households there are no
adult men left alive, because of the war. The Taliban
does not allow women to work so people die of
starvation. They also spoke about the situation of

the Afghan refugees in Peshawar. Most of us
donated money to RAWA and wished them well in
their struggle for life and dignity.
Anita

Peshawar

School Trip

i

|
i

Went to Model School, Peshawar. Model School was just like any other

Indian school. The kids mobbed us and almost the entire crowd from the
playground came running towards us. Many of them are Shahrukh Khan
and Sachin Tendulkar fans.ln one class the children sang for us, while
others just stared at us in amazement and a few ventured to ask us
questions.
On talking to the teachers, we discovered that they did not teach
Pashto. Although the rules permit it, most of the private schools in
Pakistan teach only Urdu and English. The syllabus includes six
subjects-English, Urdu, Maths, Science, Islamiyat and Pakistani
studies. Pakistani studies is taught at all levels (even in medical
colleges). In NWFR co-education is not allowed after the age of
10. Even in lower classes, girls are clustered in small groups,
not really mixing with the boys. Boys’ schools usually offer only

M

Science and for girls, Home Science is compulsory.

/ent to Peshawar University where we had a very enjoyable afternoon with the students and staff of the
Department of International Relations. The head of the department is a dignified and friendly woman who went

out of her way to make us feel at home.
After the usual questions about each other’s countries and the need for peace we had a sing song session.
One of the lecturers from the department sang some old Hindi film songs for us. We sang for them too and
then some students too joined in. Lunch was grand and we were happy to see some lovely rice on the table.
Stomachs and hearts full, we went to the Sahibzada Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology which is on the
University Campus
Later in the evening we had tea with the Peshawar chapter of the P\PFPD, followed by dinner with some local
leaders of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP). They spoke to us about the PPP's stand on peace with India and
the need to continue the Bhutto legacy.

By the end of the day we were exhausted. We had been entertained by so many different groups, and had talked
a lot about Indo-Pak relationship. Now, we just want to relax.

i
I
b
I

I

f-

20 NOV '99

Village Visit

We went to Tehseem’s village, (about 30 kms from Peshawar) to spend the day.
We are tired of cities and want to see what life is like in the hinterlands. The boys
in our group stayed back at a school’s premises (because purdah was strictly
practised) and the girls went to meet Tehseem’s aunt and her family.We found
that most men were either employed in the cities or in the Gulf countries and
women stayed in the villages and managed the households looking after children,
fields and cattle. Here children mostly go to madrasas instead of the government
schools.
Tehseem’s aunt spoke to us about Partition and what it was like in the village in
those months. She feels that when the ’Hindus’ were there in the village, there was
no open hostility, and a lot of cooperation, but the Hindus practiced subtle forms
of untouchability against the Muslims, which used to hurt them. The boys in our
group wandered around the village talking to farmers and children. Like Indian
villages, there are wide gaps in wealth. The richest man in the village had about

1000 acres of land. There are plenty of landless labourers.

Manu

We stopped at Chaarsadha famous for its khadis and
many of us bought fabric -a mixture of cotton and woolall beautifully hand-woven. Chappli kababs are a local
specialty and we all had some.

On the way back, we saw Peshawar Fort from the
outside, shopped at Wssa Ixhawni Bazaar and Saddar
Bazaar. Late at night, we took the bus back to Lahore.
Have been gulping down gallons of green tea and Pepsi.
My metabolism will never be the same again.
Chaitra

"Rave on!
21 NOV '99
All our prejudices seemed unreal as we danced. What people really want is a

feeling of well being, happiness and togetherness and not the unnecessary
conflicts of war or Mandir-Masjid. I felt guilty for the notions I carried earlier.

Shivanna

We noticed a stark difference between the village meetings and the city

meetings we had. The village people welcomed us into their homes and did not
ask us to clarify our stand on Kashmir. At Sehgal farms they nearly hijacked us
into staying the night. I was overwhelmed.
Manu

I was getting a bit tired of meeting people from big NGOs and colleges only the
privileged can afford. 1 had almost concluded that there are no poor farmers in

Pakistan. This visit has deconstructed my image of Pakistan. This is a place
where farmers have been struggling for their rights for almost 20 years. I almost
felt like I was back in my own village and with my people when we all danced
together.
Shivaninga
Arrived in Lahore early in the morning. We then went to a village
40 kilometres from Lahore. It was a phenomenal experience. There
was a huge gathering at Sehgal Farms when men and women
came together sharing their feelings, songs and ideas. We sat
around on charpoys. People sang ghazals and made speeches.
’A whole village, men and women, young and old, all don’t break into a dance in the
And then, there was an energetic session of dancing.
fields everyday. They faltered, we faltered too, dancing didn’t happen there that
Usha
often. It had to do with us, Indians, being there!
Kamaan

22 NOV’99

Back to base camp

When we came back to Lahore, Zain of Cranes for Peace was
waiting for us. He told us about his theatre group and the
theatre scene in Pakistan and some of us trooped off to the
theatre festival again to see a brilliant German play called
“Chairs”.

People keep saying “Welcome to Pakistanl’when they find out

that we are Indians. I was touched when complete strangers
want to talk and spend time with us.
Shivanna

-Young performers outside Gadaffi Stadium

Late at night some of us went to a private party general merriment
and dancing and some ‘illegal’ booze like many parties back home.
Relaxed day. More shopping. Met a few people from Aurat Foundation
and a journalist.

Chaitra

23 NOV '99

Ta Ta Bye Bye

Last day in Pakistan. Our plane back to Delhi is in the

I still cannot get over the fact that India is a

afternoon.

ten-minute auto ride from our hotel in

In Pakistan when I asked aboutthe hostility between

governments put us through.

the two countries, often I heard people say that “ye
to hukumaton aur hukumat chalane walon ki karni

Usha

Lahore.. And look at the fuss our

hai”. A person in the village put it as “Jinhon ne
mulkon ke beech main lakeerain kheechin hain, unhon
ne logon ke dil main bhi lakeeron kheenchna shuru kar
diya hai.” It is difficult to accept that I have been
living through a great lie for so many years. It looks
like a well-planned scheme. Week after week, one
sees lengthy articles on Kenya and Iceland but
nothing beyond news reports reinforcing false
stereotypes of people who live next door.

Kamaan

I never felt that I had
been in a foreign country

for the last 14 days.

Padma
I have been struggling to understand the Pakistani
situation by constantly comparing it with the Indian

context (for example, taking caste as an indicator). I was
feeling restless because I could not find the answers. Later,
someone at SAP said something that made great sense.
We cannot possibly understand the poverty in Pakistan as
we understand the Indian situation. One needs to look into
each country in its own context.

Sometimes, we felt that half the reason for the hostility

Who has decided that the living, breathing, feeling
people of both our countries are enemies who ought
to fight a war every 15 years? Who decides? Dp we
have a say at all? Or is it in the hands of our
compassionate generals and even more loving
politicians?
Manu

It is only because we are not allowed
to meet each other that there is ill

feeling. And visiting each other can
solve this.
Anthony

between India and Pakistan is our ignorance of our history.
Our educational systems shape the Us and Them thinking.
As PIPFPD members kept reiterating, our textbooks should
highlight truth and friendship rather than prejudice and
hate.
Shivaninga

Coming face-to-face with the history
of India and Pakistan I had a lot of

mixed feelings - of grief and
happiness.

Shivanna

Published by :

VOTE

Samvada, 303, Rapis Infantry Manor
70, Infantry Road, Bangalore-560001
Ph :O8O-558O585, email ■ Samvada <§> vsnl net

Text, Layout and graphic design

OF
THANKS
The reality of Indo- Pak tensions is one of recurring war clouds, a war of words, sabre rattling threats, eye-ball to eye-ball troops
while leaders don’t meet each other's eyes at much hyped summits. The air is rife with contradictions. There are accusations and

handshakes, infiltration of "militants", expulsions of diplomats, nuclear tests and no-first use agreements, Anglo-American peace
makers who also sell arms and bomber aircraft. Ordinary Pakistanis are shocked and grieved by the genocide in Gujarat. We could
go on. Three years ago when we undertook this Journey, things were not much different. ..if anything it has got worse since then

and so the need to tell our story and to share our journey. And for the 14 of us this Journey is not over and perhaps never will. This

Nisha Susan
Divya Raghunandan
Art and illustration
Divya Raghunandan
Netra Shyam

Photographs
Manu Gopaian
Kamaan Singh Dhami
Translation
Usha 6 N

booklet is with the hope to start a similar journey for you.
The people who made an almost impossible journey possible and meaningful, who opened their homes and hearts to us, who made
this trip so challenging are really too many to mention here. We would like to begin with Anusheh Hussain, who responded so warmly

to the first intrepid emails and gave us the courage to begin the process. She was our guardian angel throughout. Zain and Hajra
who picked Anita and Usha up from the airport when they landed on the reccy trip, Mr. A. R. Rehman who gave them his shoulder to

cry on when things seemed to have fallen apart. The staff of Sahil who helped them send innumerable faxes and messages to
people who could help. Justice Zahid who helped them be patient, Dr Nayyar and Pervez Hoodbhoy who were so excited by the

prospect of our trip.
When we finally arrived in Lahore, people under the umbrella of the PIPFPD hosted us in Lahore and Peshawar. Special thanks need
to be said to Kamran Islam and the members of PIPFPD who welcomed us on Day One and took us to eat paya breakfast on the

last day. People working with various organizations Sahil, AGHS, Cranes for Peace, Aurat Foundation, SAP, the students at QAU
and University of Peshawar, Madeena Gowhar and so many others who gave us such valuable insights into Pakistani society. We can
never thank them enough. Many were not part of the organizational process, but their very existence gives meaning to the journey...

Handholding/Confusion/lnterference
Uvaraj
Benson Isaac
Sharmila

Shraddha Chigateri
Mahesh
Somashekhar

Psssti Spot Shivanna in the photo on the
back cover. For answer stand on your
head

the Afghan refugees at Peshawar, the shopkeepers of Lahore, and the security men guarding us on the Journey from Islamabad to
Peshawar, the priests at the Pujna Sahib Gurudwara who gave us a fabulous lunch, the special treatment in our hotels...How do we
even begin to acknowledge the smiles on the streets, the warmth our handshakes and the risk people took in being seen with us? We

thank you all.

deo
sppijw oiyu pj/Ai uew opj: jgwsuy

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